AskTheTileMan Q & A
  Tile Company Directory
  Project Gallery
  Tile Glossary
  Tile Estimator
  Tile Calculator
 
  Tile Installation
  Ceramic Tile Repair
  Ceramic Tile How-To
  Tile Maintenance
 
Ceramic Tile Advice Forum    

Ceramic Tile Forum

Disclaimer

Ceramic Tile Advice Forum

SEARCH THE QUESTION & ANSWER ARCHIVES
SEARCH BY ID
   
Search previous month(s)    Oct  Sep  Aug  Jul  Jun  May  Apr  Mar  Feb  Jan  Dec  Nov

Please be advised that our Tile Experts will be on a tour of 43 cities this year to speak at Tile Training Seminars, two days each week from Wednesday thru Thursday until the end of October. We try to answer all letters as soon as they are posted but there can be a short delay on those days until Fridays. Thank You

    1 - 30 of 47    Next
aim-homeinspection 
Apr-30-2009 15:31
12017 
What Can I do? Our Kitchen area from the counter top going out to the lanai, tiles are popping up “tented” over the last month (30 tiles 5x6 so far). Another area 3 tiles  another area 4 tiles? About 1500sqf of tile guesstimating in the affected floor area. ·         It looks as if it will happen again because of the way the tile was laid. See article Tile Magazine;  http://www.tilemagonline.com/CDA/Archives/c3b1b9d672fa8010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0 ·         Specific examples of questionable methods that we chronicled included the following: • Insufficient knowledge of concrete substrates: Curing compounds, sealed concrete, slabs that are not even close to meeting industry standards for flatness and levelness, and the continued use of products such as felt paper, wicking paper, scribing felt on concrete surfaces that are susceptible to moisture has led to numerous failures that have been reported to our offices. ·          When movement joints were improperly placed, or in many instances were not even considered, results varied. Buckling or tenting of the tile being pushed upward was commonly cited, while in many instances a loss of bond and shearing of the tile from the substrate occurred. ·           ·         The tiles should not have been laid as close as they are to the walls, OR edge tiles are lacking the wicking paper mastic barrier to allow the floor to float as this install was intended. The actual problem is Divosta’s supervision of the subs allowed a “mastic under wicking paper to be installed” to the concrete by their design), THIS is a sub standard process if adequate perimeter gap is not present. Or the floor doesn’t float properly. IE: thin set to concrete.   ·         OR:  The tiles need to be set in thin set in this type application to concrete. Their customer service representative from  “Divosta’s”  is incorrect, let the tile floor float! Yes, a great idea if there is an expansion gap around the perimeter, to let the floor float. Expand and contract! Wonderful!  BUT, if there is no room for the expansion “movement”, up comes the floating tiles. OR if there are tiles that do not float, up comes the tiles.  ”TENTING”.   ·          Tiles set correctly by using tiles to thin set to concrete along with adhering to the 1/4” perimeter gap rule for movement, would not have had tenting tiles! You may have had cracked tiles if the slab cracked, but no issue with tenting! This is the old rule of proper tile installation. The tiles are adhering to the thin set wonderfully.  The problem is the expansion and contraction that has lead to the breakdown. “Expansion and contraction” of the tiles and buckling buy the sheer fact of no place to expand to. (sounds like someone is knocking at the door at times). An inadequate, unacceptable explanation from the Divosta’s representative Jordan Goldman on his visit to the home on 4/2/08. We only cover faulty installation and faulty workmanship for the first year. When you install or manufacture anything incorrectly, one will find that they are responsible to make necessary repairs if they wish to continue in good standing with a good name in business community!    Any good sugestions??
Dear AIM-HOMEINSPECTION:

Your letter is informative in explaining the "rules" about tenting and adequate bonds to concrete substrates but lacking in information as to details in the/your installation. Every installation is different, just as we "humans" are different from each other. What will work there might not work here and vica versa. You left out all the pertinent information for me to make a judgment call from a distance. Please elaborate from the "Getgo". Substrate surface, its age, what the condition of it was before tiling? (Previous flooring, if any, and what was done to remove it). What preparation was performed on the slab, if any? What mortars were used; what "specifically" was the tile, including size and description. Was the mortar "keyed into the substrate as required? What size teeth did the trowel have and what was the angle of the trowel to the substrate as the trowel spread the mortar? Was too much mortar spread at one time allowing areas of mortar to "skin over? Were some of the problem tiles wet or dusty when installed? Were tiles occasionally lifted and checked for mortar transference? Were the tiles pressed in and "moved a bit" as required? Were the tiles "beat" with a mallet or beating block, as required? Were grout joints uniform and were tile spacers used? Did anyone walk on the tiles prematurely? Were some of the areas in question in direct sunlight, opposed to other areas? Were there expansion joints in "key areas" and if not, why not? Were there "soft joints" around the perimeter and against solid objects? 1500 sq ft is considerable tile and preventative precautions are always prudent before and during installation. Please answer all these questions, and then I may ask some more depending on your answers. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM".

 
LK 
Apr-28-2009 18:38
12016 
Just moved into 3 year old home with shiny white ceramic in kitchen.  Grout is any number of colors (started out white I assume).  I decided to clean the grout.  Went to Lowe's, bought their brand, painted up the grout, let it set, used hard brush with absolutely no results. I decided that my dish washer detergent was safe for chine, stainless, etc..  Mixec half water, half detergent in spray bottle, sprayed the grout.  Of course some got on the tile, but within 1  hour I had gone back with the hard brush, then mopped the floor and waited to see it dry.  Grout was a little lighter, but the shiny finish on the tile  now has spots, some big, some small.  I washed the floor 5 times with warm water, but it looks like the tiles have lost the sealed finish wherever the spray hit the tile.  What can I do?  Will I be able to restore the luster?  Help!! My husband will be here this weekend!!
Dear LK:

You need the help of the best person I know, when it comes to sealers. Call Dave Glen at 360-733-9029 ext 2145 (Pacific Time Zone) or e-mail him at:  dglen@homaxproducts.com If he can't help you, no one can. If your husband come home before you can find a solution, close the blinds and leave a note saying you had to visit your Mom. If he doesn't look closely he may even think he did it and you may return home and see a note from him saying he had to visit his Mom. Armen Tavy

 
Carl 
Apr-26-2009 19:09
12015 
Hi All Am doing a semi-kitchen renovation. My old laminate counter and backsplash are in great condition but very dated. We have pulled the counter for replacement and want to tile over the laminate backsplash. Should I cover the laminate backsplash with Greenboard or Backerboard, or can I use the Tavy Thin Skin product? This is typical kitchen set up. Limited water exsposure near sink but that is all. The Thin Skin 2 Part Underlayment product looks ideal and not having to cut backerboard or carry sheets of Green drywall would certainly please these 61 year old bones!  I just want to be sure that we can have a tile backsplash that will last. Thanks Carl
Dear CARL:

TAVY Thin-Skin is ideal for your backsplash application. If you hadn't already removed your old counter top, you could have used Thin-Skin directly over the laminate. If your new countertop surface is at least 3/4" plywood, you would be better off using Thin-Skin over the new wood. If you were intending to use cement backerboard over the new plywood, you can save your money for other things. Add plywood strips under the overhang to make the counter edge the ideal 1 1/2" thickness. Go to www.tavytools.com and click your mouse on Ron Hazelton in the left margin for a video over laminate counter tops. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
James McG 
Apr-25-2009 10:55
12014 
Hi everyone.   New to the site, but I've been setting tile for over 20 years and I gotta a problem that sounds like it has been an issue with others as well.   In 2006 I was talked into trying out Blankes Uni Mat tile underlayment. I was assured that it was the same technology behind Ditra but " cost less ". This was from a supplier that I was buying most of my material at the time.  Over the course of the next year or so I installed this product in at least half a dozen job, most of which were at least 1000 sq ft or more. Aftera year or so went by the call backs started rolling in. I know you guys have heard this before... delamination of the fleece backing from the backside of the plastic resulting in at the very least crunching sounds when walked on, and in some cases, cracked grout joints. For the first failure, Mike Cohn ( who I actually do have respect for) came out from Blanke and reviewed our intallation. This was a really old commercial building that had some crazy issues with the subfloor ( the reason we used UM originally) but in the end we were denied in our claim for the simple reason that my grouter had laef grout in SOME of the perimeter gaps around the room. ( we are talking less than 10% of the entire perimeter joint was filled.) I frustrated with their decision, but the repair was fairly minor, 1.5 days of labor and less than 500$ in material, so I bit the bullet and made my client happy. After 20 years this was my only serious callback so i wasn't too worried about it. However, within two months the next client in line contacted me with the same complaint. Now I'm pissed. Another 1000 + sq ft with the same symptoms. This time I'm dealing with Ken Krouse, who is part of Blankes claim department. Without any inspection they again blamed failure on a small percentage of the perimeter joints being grouted. I had a few heated "discussions withhim concerning this, basically trying to drive home the fact that after 20 years of tile setting over just about every underlayment in the industry I had never seen failures of this magnitude... not saying i never had some pick up ... but this was rediculous . On this project my client was really upset (putting it mildly), plus she is someone in my small community who has lots of clout. Trying to keep my own reputation in tact, I offered to replace the floor at my expense. This incurred a huge loss for me, around 15k. Blake denied my claim, but after it was all done a check for 2000$ showed up in my mail. Apparently, Cohn had convinced the powers that be that maybe it was in their best interest to keep me quiet. ( In a fit of rage I had called every installer and supplier in my area and let them know of my issues with UM... My distributor admitted later that he couldn't give away the rest of his stocked UM after that...) I'm calling that 2000$ hush money, but I took it. Anyway, this is getting longer than I anticipated... sorry... rambling.   Long story short, over the course of the next year or so every single install involving UM has failed in the exact same manner. Cohn has become evasive on the subject but has told me a couple of times that, while he would deny it in court, he feels that Blanke had problems early on and should not have put their product on the market. He indicated that they switched manufactures at one point and had problems. In fact , last time we spoke just a few weeks ago, he said he is quitting Blanke and the only reason he could give me was that he was uncomfortable with how Blanke was dealing with certain products and the claims against them. I also did some digging and heard about a container sitting on the docks in summer heat after Katrina hit . Sounds suspicious to me.   Anyway, now I have my lawyer involved and I'm planning on going deep this time. Off the top of my head I'm looking at maybe 100K in claims here. In this small town, my reputation is at stake.   So I'm wondering who else out there has had issues with  Uni Mat? All my failures were around 06 & 07. Haven't used it since then... guess what... business as usual, no callbacks.   I'm hoping to get as many of us on board an go at them as a group.   I hear that Home Depot in Denver is invovled in a lawsuit with Blanke regarding thousands of failures in their area. Any info on that one?    I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone in my shoes...   James McGregor Mcgregor Designs Red Lodge, MT 59068 mcg.designs@hotmail.com 406 598 3420
Dear JAMES MCG:

If you go to Blanke's Uni Mat web site and read the instructions and disclaimers, it is no wonder that there are so many customer complaints. There are explicit instructions and it is like a jet engine, one part missing and the engine can fail. This is not an isolated case of job failures, they persist in the real world and will continue until every installer "dots all the i s and cross all the t s”. There has to be a common denominator for so many failures and generally speaking, except for a few exceptions, it is usually "OE" operator error. I have never used this product but I have read the instructions, and they are complicated and clear at the same time. Any underlayment product that is permanently fastened to a substrate is susceptible to failures if there are too many "if s" in their instructions. I hope there is someone out there who has a solution for you, but I seriously doubt that will happen. Sorry, Armen Tavy

 

 

 
Ms. Howard 
Apr-25-2009 10:01
12013 
Hello, My home was built in August 2008. My ceramic tile floor is driving me crazy. Every time I clean it, it shows footprints. The grout has been sealed, however the footprints are on the tile. The tile appears to be on the dull side. Is there anything I can do? I have been cleaning it with Armstrong Ceramic Floor cleaner and have tried vinegar with water too. Still an issue. Perhaps, it is the type of tile? Any ideas are helpful. Thanks  
Dear MS. HOWARD:

My guess is that this is another case of grout haze that has cured on the surface of the tiles and then sealed, which compounds the problem. The sealer must be removed and then the "haze" to get back down to the ceramic tile surface, which is a hard glaze that shouldn't be hard to maintain, and is the main reason for its popularity. You must search for a solvent that can get thru the sealer and then look for another one to remove the haze. Start experimenting with a few gel coat type paint removers to remove the sealer if it was a solvent base. If the sealer was water base, the solution will require different chemicals. Aqua Mix, Tile Guard and DuPont all have their own variations of water base sealer removers. Go to their respective web sites and locate a dealer near you and work on "one tile" until you find the "magic pill". From a distance, that's the best solution I can recommend. Armen Tavy

 
jharvey 
Apr-24-2009 13:12
12012 
Thanks for your reply!  I live near Austin, TX.  Our freezes are usually mild and short, if they occur at all.
Dear JHARVEY:

I need your E-mail address so I can send the instruction page. If you want to protect your privacy, send it to spacerman@tavytools.com . Armen Tavy

 
jharvey 
Apr-23-2009 00:46
12011 
I have hired a contractor to tile a covered exterior balcony (over exterior porch), which is approximately 13' x 50'.  It is floored with 2x12" 16" o.c. joists and 1 1/8" plywood, topped with 3 layers of tar paper membrane hot-mopped, and is flashed at all edges and sloped 1/4" per foot.  I am using 16" porcelain tiles.  I am very concerned about compromising this elaborate waterproofing, and asked the contractor not to penetrate the membrane with screws or nails.  His answer was to embed Hardibacker CBU into thinset applied over the tarpaper, then thinset the tiles over the CBU.  He had installed the CBU and a couple of rows of tile before I saw the work this afternoon.  I am very concerned that the (untiled) CBUs are flexing up and down because they are not anchored to the plywood.  Since I can't find any confirmation that this is an accepted installation technique, and Hardibacker is recommended to be anchored every 8", I am doubly worried, and would appreciate your input.
Dear JHARVEY:

You were right to be concerened. I will scan and mail you the Tile Council's recomended preparation and tiling reqirements this Saturday. Can't do it any sooner because I'm at a Coverings 2009 Trade Show in Chicago. Work must stop!!!! I also must know if you are in a freeze thaw climate. Armen Tavy

 
janisbush 
Apr-22-2009 20:57
12010 
My husband cleaned the bathroom floor tile grout with liquid pumice.  Now all the places where he used that product is rough and dirt collecting.  Is thre anything we can do to resurface the floor and correct this problem?
Dear JANISBUSH:

There are several epoxy grout paints that may fill the etched voids in your grout. Check Aqua Mix, Homax and Custom Building Products for these specialty paints in the tile sealer departments of your local tile supply stores. Another option is to remove enough grout, to a minimum depth of 1/8", and then re-grout.  A grout saw, or pointed beer can openers can be used. If these don't work, a "Fein" oscellating grout removal tool will make the job a "breeze". Check your local tool rental locations. Armen Tavy

 
aim-homeinspection 
Apr-21-2009 11:09
12009 
What is the use of wicking paper under ceramic tile over concrete?  
Dear AIM-HOMEINSPECTION:

It's main purpose is to act as a crack suppressant. Armen Tavy

 
Lefty 
Apr-20-2009 20:38
12008 
Add-on to previous question: We don't beleive they used anywhere close to the recommended nail on 10" centers in nailing the Wunderboard down.  How much of a problem is this?  Why are so many nails/screws recommended?
Dear LEFTY:

Not having the correct fastener pattern and forgetting the motar underneath the boards are serious omissions. I would loose sleep over this one!!! Armen Tavy

 
justmeBlondie 
Apr-20-2009 20:20
12007 
How would a find a bullnose to a shower made 20 years ago.
Dear JUSTMEBLONDIE:

You would have to give us more to go on or give us a better description of the "bullnose tile" and hope one of our readers can help. Armen Tavy

 
Walt 
Apr-20-2009 19:51
12006 
Putting several rows of tile backsplash (bathroom sink) on virgin, moisture resistant drywall using thin set mortar.  Should I prime first?
Dear WALT:

A skim coating with your tile setting mortar and letting it dry to the touch would be sufficent. Armen Tavy

 
Lefty 
Apr-20-2009 16:29
12005 
After talking to three installers, we have had seamless vinyl in our kitchen and breakfast area replaced with 18" X 18" ceramic tile.  The floor was a plywood subfloor covered with partical board and the vinyl glued to that.  The installer pulled up the vinyl, leaving the backing.  He then put down 1/4" Wunderboard nailed to the partical board with roofing nails, and applied the thinset and tile on that.  Other installers we had talked to said they would take up the partical board and use a 1/2" cement board with mud under it.  Question 1: Is there anything wrong with the installation we have?  Question 2: Was the other guy's method better?  Question 3: What is a typical warranty for this installation?
Dear LEFTY:

Since he didn't remove the backing, nothing was achieved by removing just the vinyl layer, which if left, would have given you moisture protection between your tile floor and the Partical Board. If he installed the backerboard without a bonding agent, he voided any warrenty you may have had. The backer board manufacturers prefer that mortar be used as the bonding and leveling agent using a 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" trowel. Backerboards do not stiffen a floor as well as any kind of 4' x 8" 'wood sheeting will. Particle Boards are sensitive to moisture but kitchens rarely have moisture problems unless a dishwasher or sink related plumbing spring a leak. 1/4" Backer Boards are sufficient for floors and 1/2" is used for walls. Removing the Particle Board and replacing it with 1/2" Backer Board would have not been recognized by "TCNA" as a "legal subfloor" for a tile installation. The Galvanized Roofing nail pattern for backerboards is 8" every where in the "field" and at least every 6" around the perimeter/s and along every seam. #1: Yes, # 2: Not really, #3: A typical warranty can be for life, if all the instructions are followed to a "T". Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
Buddy 
Apr-19-2009 21:43
12004 
can i apply 6x6 tile to the ceiling and walls above a 3'x 5' shower unit. the walls are painted drywall,ceiling also.
Dear BUDDY:

This area is not as sensitive to moisture and if the paint is semi-gloss on the walls and ceiling, Type I Tile Mastic should work fine however, if the ceiling is painted with a "Cheap" flat ceiling paint I would be cautious. If the walls are flat paint, scrub them briskly with a wet face cloth for several minutes, if paint doesn't scrub off onto the cloth it should be fine. If everything checks out, skim coat the walls and ceiling with a very thin coating of the mastic with the flat side of your trowel and let it air dry to the touch plus 30 minutes, before spreading mastic with a minimum 3/16" V-Notch Trowel to set your tiles. Press tiles in and wiggle them slightly before installing TAVY  Spacers with a small dab of mastic on a corner of their disc to keep them from falling off. Remove spacers after tiles have "set fast" (usually within or less than 1 hour) and wash/scrub mastic residue off with a wet rag. If tiles move while scrubbing, re-install the spacers and wait until the tiles don't move. The ceilings usually look better installed on a diagonal. 2" x 6" surface bullnose tiles can be used to terminate the ceiling tiles. When tiling over paint or other questionable surfaces, TAVY Thin-Skin Tile Underlayment can put your mind at ease. www.tavytools.com for sources. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
steveb 
Apr-19-2009 12:41
12003 
depending on layout of tile , what is the amount of thin skin underlayment system on each side of control joint needed for 12x12 tile 
Dear STEVEB:

Thin-Skin is 30 inches wide and if you center it on the control joint it will give you 15 " of protection on each side of the joint which is more than enough for a 12" or 13" tile, but not enough for a 16". If you plan to install Thin-Skin only on the control joint/s, hold the 5/32 V-Notch Trowel at no less than a 60 degree angle to the floor and spread glue "neatly". Install the "fabric" and use moderate pressure with a flat trowel to imbed the "fabric" onto the 007 Glue so the glue lines are slightly flattend but not "crushed". To give the most positive protection over control joints, allow the installed fabric to "set" for at least 30 minutes before skim coating with mortar. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
steveb 
Apr-19-2009 12:37
12002 
methods for concrete floor scarifying?
Dear STEVEB:

Shot Blasting, sanding, grinding or make your life easy and use Tavy Thin-Skin Tile Underlayment. www.tavytools.com for sources

 
jschlosser 
Apr-19-2009 11:50
12001 
I am replacing the floor tile in a shower.  This is the third time it will be tiled.  The original tile needed to be replaced after 48 years and my son-in-law whose bathroom it was and who we know knows how to lay tile because he has helped us do it several times did it himself.  The workmanship was fine (you should have seen the cutout around the floor drain!)- the materials were not.  He used an acrylic-based adhesive of some sort and we all know how that turns out.  I just ripped it out yesterday and got all of the adhesive off the mudpan.  The surface is a bit roughed up, nothing major, but I would like to skim coat it with thinset before I lay the new tile to make sure it is smooth and that there isn't any trouble with any changes to the surface of the mudpan that I can't see with my naked eye.  How long should I let the thinset set before I test it and lay new tile? Oh, I redid my master bath a couple of years ago and used the Laticrete SpectraLock epoxy grout and LOVE it.  I have a couple of pails of it here for the one I am working on now.  Are there any long-term issues I need to know about?  I didn't have anyone to ask before.
TJ 
Apr-18-2009 17:12
12000 
as an art project at my school-many children have painted 4 X 4 tiles that are supposed to be glazed and then sent off to be 'fired'.  My question is: we used regular acyrlic paint.  Should we buy a special kind of glaze so that the paint doesn't burn in the firing? ~TJ
Dear TJ:

You should check with the "Kiln" company that you have selected to "fire your tiles" for their recommendations. It would be a shame to ruin the childrens hard work. Glazers are particular about what will work and what won't. I hope you purchased "Raw" un-glazed tile bisque from a tile manufacturer. I would ordinairily check this out further for you but I'm leaving for a weeks stay at our Industry Trade Show in the morning. If you don't get the right answers, please write again. Good Luck, Armen Tavy

 
Dick 
Apr-18-2009 16:28
11999 
How do I restore a ceramic tile floor
Dear DICK:

Here are a couple of sites you can go to for chemicals.

 http://1877floorguy.amazonwebstore.com/Aqua-Mix-Concentrated-Tile-Cleaner-32oz.

www.homaxproducts.com

Sulfamic Crystals can also be purchased in many tile departments. they can be disolved in water to various concentrations. "TSP", Tri Sodium Phosphate Crystals available in Paint stores is another cleaner. Armen Tavy

 
steveb 
Apr-17-2009 08:19
11998 
installing 12x12 tile on bath ceiling?
Dear STEVEB:

Review post number 11988. This is a pro's job or a careful DIY. Use a high end modified (liquid latex modified is best) cement mortar, DO NOT USE Redi Mix TILE MASTICS. If you are nervous, sticks, 1" x 2", can be cut to fit tight under the tiles (slight bow) until the tiles are set, overnight would be prudent. You must use tile spacers because pressure from the "Sticks" could/can cause tiles to drift out of alignment. Please be careful and place soft protection on the floor below the ceiling. If it's over a bathtub, double the protection. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
steveb 
Apr-17-2009 08:16
11997 
do i need to scarify anew concrete floor before tilng
Dear STEVEB:

If you are looking for a 100% warranty by any mortar manufacturer you must, that's "their" Loop Hole, or you have the option of investing a little extra time and money into a variety of tile underlayments that have their own warranties, including mine. www,tavytools.com  for sources.  Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
steveb 
Apr-17-2009 08:03
11996 
correct way for tiling over concrete control joints
Dear STEVEB:

Control joints are "saw cut" into a large cement slab by the contractor. If the slab should crack, they would rather it be on a control joint. It may or may not ever crack. It also must be cut deep enough to be effective, so check your local building codes. I have seen some control joints that crack erratically several inches away from the planned control joint in jagged lines. There are products that can minimize or absorb the/a crack so it is less apt to break the tile/s. It is rarely a 100 percent guarantee unless you are willing to spend the extra money and effort required for 100% protection. Uncoupling membranes can work and there are many to choose from. There are high end products like Schluter Ditra; then there are products like Mapei's "MapaLath" as well as others. I have a crack suppressant as well that I call TAVY "008" Easy To Eliminate, which is a "quick release" tiling system that also gives "complete" control joint crack protection and does not raise the height enough to measure. It is also understood that all/any systems will not give protection against "vertical" crack movements. Therefore, the answer is YES, as long as the floor tiles are not "mechanically" attached to the subfloor. One more option, as long as the crack runs straight and "true” on the "Control joint", is to cut the tile at the exact location of the "Control Joint", spreading the two cut sections (grout joint size), then filling the space/cut grout joint, with a soft flexible caulk or use a designed product, i.e. Schluter "Expansion Joint" an other like products. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGM".

 

 

 
Mr. Stewart 
Apr-15-2009 16:15
11995 
I'm having a new building built, my builder is asking if we won't to have to tile recesed so there won't be a transition, he was also asking about mud set or thin set, what do you think
Dear MR. STEWART:

The two methods you mention differ depending on whether you are talking about a recessed wood floor or a recessed cement slab. For the latter, it would be difficult to get any concrete contractor to guarantee a smooth, flat recess that would be ready for tile with "Thin-Set" Mortar. "Mud Set" in a deeper depression would be the only way to go to guarantee a flat and level floor, however, I would certainly check the references of the installer to be certain that he was qualified to do a recessed mud set installation, whether it's "Wet Set" or "Dry Set". It's not a job that many are qualified to perform. Wood, unbelievably, would be more difficult to recess (into the floor joists) and still have the room to get the substrate strong enough for tile. The recessed section of the wood subfloor would still need to be 1 1/8" minimum thick and there aren't many builders that are willing to go through the trouble to get it done correctly. If you have one that will, consider yourself lucky. If you go either "recessed way" send me a note with "details" of his plan so I can review them for correct procedures. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 

 

 
catmando 
Apr-14-2009 10:45
11994 
Hello Armen,  thank you for responding.  I am confused as to whether the scarifying of a post tension slab is an acceptable practice.  Some experts say you must scarify and recommend a slip sheet or some brand of water proofing anti-fracture membrane.  The porcelain tile I removed was lifted from the thinset bed with ease and didn't even have my skim coat or 1 square inch of the modified pocelain thinset mortar on the back of them.  The thinset had a 100% waffle impression and no cracks until I smacked it with a hammer.  85% of the job is like this.  The balance (15%) had a 1/4" bed and adhered very poorly with a couple of small 2" patches of skim coat on the tile.  I re-installed 4 tiles in different areas with the same process as the original installation using 3 other manufacturers products.  I can BEAT them with a rubber mallot and they don't budge or falter, they are totally solid and bonded.  My problem is that the thinset did not adhere to the conreate or the tile.  I had the thinset tested for polymers.  The amount of polymers in the dried sample of original thinset would be very costly to evaluate.  I need somebody to help stand behind me.  The supplier might replace the cost of the thinset but the manufacturer won't accept their product failure.  Please give me some feedback.  I am in check!
Dear CATMANDO:

There are only two main reasons for a "waffle impression" on the mortar after removing a tile. As I said previously, it's either "bad mortar" or "too much mortar was spread at one time". Air can quickly dry the surface of the mortar giving you a false set. If you have any mortar left over from the original installation, run the same test as you did with your re-installed 4 tiles. If they stick and pass the mallet test, the answer is obvious. Give me the name and phone number of the manufacturer you originally complained to and I will personally call them. Include the name of the person you talked with or give me some kind of reference number. Armen Tavy

 

 

 
Tile by Karl 
Apr-14-2009 08:15
11993 
Catmando, While living in S. FL where almost all work is over slabs I learned of a product called "inject-a-floor" this was several years back, but if you contact Bonnie Tile distributors in West Palm Beach. you may get a quick answer as to if it is still available.  I used this to salvage some severely poor installations. It is/was used by drilling holes around voided tile and usinga caulking gun to shoot a thin highly adhesive material under the tiles.  Weight is then placed on the tiles being treated utill dry and the holes in the grout filled. Your's is a much larger area but I had great results. hope it helps. Hope input to answers is not steppin on anyones toes.
Dear TILE BY KARL:

I don't mind the input but I question the true value of the process. Injecting into drilled voids around a tile/s can only give you a perimeter "tac". The main body of the tiles would still be "un-bonded", "fragile" and probably sound hollow. I can't begin to imagine how long it would take "Catmando" to "doctor up" (not completely repair) a 2,000 sq ft installation. This could be a temporary fix for a small installation or for some one trying to sell a home,..... as long as I'm not the one purchasing it. Thanks for your input Karl, but I personally don't feel that there is any alternative/s for "Catmando". Armen Tavy, Plant City, Florida

 
Bird3 
Apr-14-2009 07:46
11992 
Dear Armen, Thank you for your response and explanation on question 11989 and 11990. I think I've confused you into thinking I'm putting in a new TILE shower floor. The NEW shower base is a Swanstone prefab veritek. The tiles will overlap this base, but I will leave about 1/8 - 1/4" gap from the bottom. Am I making a little more sense? Thanks.
Dear BIRD3:

Yes, but the same advice still stands. To make it clear, it must be in front of the raised "lip" and not on top of it. There should also be a gap of 1/8" to 1/4" under the backerboard (so it doesn't come in direct contact with the "base itself) which should be filled with thin-set or preferably with an Acrylic Tile Caulk to prevent "Wicking". The first row of ceramic tiles should also be lifted slightly off the base so this open joint can be sealed, preferably with the same Acrylic Caulk. Wash some of the Acrylic Caulk off leaving a small void that can be filled with the same grout as the rest of the installation so everything matches. The reason for this double protection is that shower water can "bounce up" through the smallest crack/joint/space and get behind the tile/s. That is the main reason we don't advise setting the shower walls directly on top of the raised lip that is there to prevent water intrusion to the area behind the "pan" which can eventually cause (hidden from view) mold and mildew. Armen Tavy

 
catmando 
Apr-13-2009 13:18
11991 
I have tile a post tension slab with 18" porcelain tile purchased from Lowes.  The area is approx. 2000 sq./ft..  I used a modified porcelain set thin set. After 2 months I started hearing hollow sounds as I walked across the floor.  I used a 3" rubber suction cup and very easily pulled the tile off of the thin-set bed. "It didn't stick". I hit the thin-set with a hammer and took the modified porcelain thin-set off of the floor like taking a pancake out of a frying pan.  "It didn't stick".  The thin-set bed varied from 1/4" to 1/2" as the labeling on the bag stated that I could use as much thin-set as nessecary to level the finished tile.  I buttered the floor, buttered the waffled back of the tile and used a 1/2" notched trowel.  I called the manufacturere and they said that I couldn't apply the thin-set more that 1/4" or the tile and concrete would delaminate from the thin-set.  Since the instructions on the bag suggested a 1/2" notched trowel and the standard practice of buttering the tile back was used, I don't set what I could have done wrong.  The thin-set shrank!  Does anybody know what I should do from here?  This was a $30,000.00 job.  Please let me know what you think. Thanks,
Dear CATMANDO:

This is feeling like a poor choice of a "lower end" modified mortar to install your tiles or possibly an expired (date) product, which are the two main reasons for job failures with Porcelain Tiles. All Post Tension Slabs, as well as regular slabs, are finished with a large rotary magnesium float which produces a slick finish. We (The Industry) "hate" slick finishes on concrete and these surfaces should be "scarified" before tiling, however, you are not advised to "Scarify" Post Tension Slabs. If you had used a "Liquid" Latex Modified Mortar, instead of just an ordinary Polymer Modified Mortar, to properly skimcoat your slab and allowing that skim coat to dry first, and then set your tiles with the same mortar, you would probably not have lost your floor. If you had used my TAVY Thin-Skin Tile Underlayment before tiling, your mortar (any kind) would not have come off the slab like "pancakes". Buttering the floor is not the same as "Keying it In". To correctly "Key In" you must use only a small amount first and "scrape it in" with as much force as possible leaving only a thin film of mortar behind. Excessive thickness/buttering without pressure is not the correct procedure. It's like putting a wet pancake mix on a skillet that has been sprayed with "Pam". Sorry, but the odds are that your floor is a total loss unless you have the patience and fortitude to clean all the mortar off all the tiles so you can re-use them. What expert did you consult before you started this expensive project? Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 
Bird3 
Apr-13-2009 12:35
11990 
Regarding question 11989, I reset the shower base allowing 2 of the 3 walls to accomodate the 1/2 board and now only a slight gap exists on the other side wall with a bit less overlap now. I think it will be okay now, but do I use a bit more mortar on the bottom of the tile to make up for the gap on that one wall?
Dear BIRD3:

PLEASE read my reply to 11989!!!! Armen Tavy

 
Bird3 
Apr-12-2009 23:23
11989 
Not sure I can explain this in writing, but I'll try. I have installed a new shower base to replace my old one. The old shower base was very thick on the top part that meets next to the studs such that the "drywall" set on top of it nearly flush, which made the tile work simple. The new base, however, is significantly thinner such that the 1/2" Durarock will jut over the shower top by a little more than 1/4". So, when the tile is placed on the DuraRock, it will leave a significant gap between the tile and the shower base. Should I simply use lots of adhesive to fill this gap or should I add 1/4" of cement board and adhere that to the shower base first? Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!
Dear BIRD3:

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are concerned about a space below the backerboard that is recessed and you would like to build it out. You previous installation should not have been flush with the base walls and neither should the new backerboard. It should not be resting on top of the new shower base walls, even if it's only on it partially. Any moisture or condensation on the "backs" of the boards are supposed to "dribble" down into the the shower pan and not be deflected by the walls which would allow condensation to leak behind the pan. Your backerboards should have been shimmed out so that the boards drop down in front of the pans walls with a small air gap behind them. THEY SHOULD NOT SIT ON TOP OF THE BASE/PAN'S WALLS/SIDES. The backerboards should not go closer than several inches to the proposed height of the new ceramic tile surface, to prevent "Wicking" of water up into the boards. The space below the boards (the walls of the base pan) should be coated with thin-set with a throw away paint brush and then filled/packed flush to the face of the boards with the same "Dry Pack" you will be using to fill the shower pan. This seperate "fill" will break the siphone (wicking) effect. If you don't understand this, write again. Do not fill the space with 1/4" or any scraps of backerboard!!!! Remember to keep all "weep holes" in the sub-drain open and un-restricted by using a cup full of small gravel or tile chips around the sub-drain before filling the pan with "Dry Pack".  Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM""

 
Jerry 
Apr-12-2009 17:36
11988 
What mortar/mastic do you recommend for a bathroom shower ceiling ?. I have already installed cement backerboard. I am using 6 x 6 x 1/4 thick tiles. Thanks, Jerry 
Dear JERRY:

It's a good practice to always use at least a "Modified" Thin-Set Mortar. That is any dry set thin-set that has powder polymers added to the dry mixture. The polymers enhance the bond and also give mortar flexibility. Many companies usually have more than one grade priced accordingly. "Porcelain" tiles are extremely dense and are best set with mortars that require their own Liquid Latex Additive. I certainly would not want a ceiling tile falling on my head. It is your choice, Good, Better, Best. If it was my ceiling, I would skim a very thin coating of thin-set on each tile just before installing. The correct trowel to spread the mortar is also important. Nice neat "Corn Rows" of mortar spread with a 1/4" x 3/8" x 1/4" trowel would be my choice. Press tiles in place, "wiggle" a little and install spacers to keep tiles in alignment. Tavy "Tile Spacers" have a disc in their center that can be spotted with a dab of mortar to keep them from falling down. Remove the spacers after the tiles have set and sponge wash the residue. Don't wait longer than a couple of hours to wash mortar residue. "Note: Be neat, because to much mortar is not necessarily better. Too much will allow the tiles to "slip" from their own weight and possibly fall to the floor before they set. Keep an “eye on" your ceiling installation for the first 1/2 hour after completion. Armen Tavy, "TIRTGIM"

 

 

 
    1 - 30 of 47    Next

     

We now reguire registration to post questions on the AskTheTileMan forum. For a free membership please register by clicking on the "register now" icon below. Repeat questions or questions that are already in the achives may be remove by our tile experts at their discretion so please do a search for your question at the top of this page first before posting as it may already have been answered.


Ceramic Tile Advice Forum vBulletin

Title or Alias: 
Password:     

Ceramic Tile Advice Forum Registration

Standard member registration is FREE!!